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Frieza VS King Cold
Topic Started: Nov 14 2011, 04:22 AM (1,366 Views)
NavonWise
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I know a lot of you might and will say Frieza but I don't know if Frieza was stronger. King Cold was only in his second form while Frieza was stronger then ever, and the Z warrior state there were not two powerful monsters. When Tien said he couldn't believe they were fighting a monster like that, Gohan did state that it was nothing and Frieza could get stronger than that. But again, Cold was in his second form, so who knows how strong he could have gotten if he went to his final form.
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lunar2
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we don't know that cold was in his second form. that's merely a fan assumption, and nothing in canon or official material confirms or denies it. there are several differences between frieza's second form and king cold, though.

1. king cold's arms are smooth, while second form frieza had scaly arms.

2. king cold has no natural armor on his shoulders (we can't see his chest to tell about that), but 2nd form frieza had armor plating all over his torso and shoulders.

3. king cold is significantly bigger than second form frieza.

now, these differences can be interpreted 1 of 2 ways.

1. they are superficial differences between 2 individuals in the same form, and king cold has 2 extra forms, or

2. king cold only resembles 2nd fom frieza, and doesn't transform.

most people on this forum, including me, lean towards the second interpretation, because if king cold could transform, he would have against trunks.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Weskur
Nov 14 2011, 04:22 AM
I know a lot of you might and will say Frieza but I don't know if Frieza was stronger. King Cold was only in his second form while Frieza was stronger then ever, and the Z warrior state there were not two powerful monsters. When Tien said he couldn't believe they were fighting a monster like that, Gohan did state that it was nothing and Frieza could get stronger than that. But again, Cold was in his second form, so who knows how strong he could have gotten if he went to his final form.
There's no evidence Cold was in his second form. People only say that because it resembles Freeza's second form, but there are a few differences, not including the obvious size difference even if both were in second form.

Freeza stated he was the strongest numerous times, and Cold never said a thing. It's a statement that's never contradicted, and it's backed up by Cold's daizenshuu bio which says he's "somewhat inferior" to Freeza.
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NavonWise
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Could be different but I doubt that was his final form. His base and true form(final form)should look similar to his son's. I know we have only seen two of Frieza's race, being Frieza and King Cold, but if Frieza's final form is his original, why would Cold's original be so different and look more like Frieza's second form?
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Weskur
Nov 14 2011, 05:00 AM
Could be different but I doubt that was his final form. His base and true form(final form)should look similar to his son's. I know we have only seen two of Frieza's race, being Frieza and King Cold, but if Frieza's final form is his original, why would Cold's original be so different and look more like Frieza's second form?
Cold was much older than Freeza.

Whatever form you may think Cold was in, it doesn't negate him being weaker than Freeza. Everything points to Freeza being the strongest of their race canonically.
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NavonWise
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I don't think it was ever stated how much older Cold was. And wasn't there a quote of Frieza saying the only ones that ever beat him bad were his parents? Still, if that was Cold's base and original form, that's just weird and Akira probably rushed that. I mean how would his base look similar to Frieza's second form? As I said, I know we don't know much about their race but wouldn't it make sense for their original form to look more like...their original form?
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Cocoman
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Badabing!

“the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan

I think this quote from King Cold heavily suggests Freeza>himself because he knew that the 'SSjin' was > organic Freeza so if there was a chance that he was stronger than the 'SSjin' I think he would have mentioned it.

This is actually further supported by this;
“My, you are capable, aren’t you? Marvelous, truly more than I imagined…To think that you could wipe my son Freeza out in that instant…How about it? Will you take Freeza’s place and become my child? Certainly you, the strongest in the universe, are qualified to join my clan.

In his eyes anyone > Freeza = strongest in the universe.
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NavonWise
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Yea I see what you mean, but I just find it weird that Cold would be in a form similar to Frieza's second form, and it's like his original or something. Ehh, DBZ's logic does go out the window, just never thought it was this much.
Edited by NavonWise, Nov 14 2011, 03:05 PM.
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I think he's weaker than Mecha Freeza but possibly stronger than regular 100% Freeza. Depending on if that guide entry that said he's somewhat inferior to Freeza meant.
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gotta say freez he can actually fight we never really see cold do anything fighting wise really except swinging a sword
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Weskur
Nov 14 2011, 02:40 PM
I don't think it was ever stated how much older Cold was. And wasn't there a quote of Frieza saying the only ones that ever beat him bad were his parents? Still, if that was Cold's base and original form, that's just weird and Akira probably rushed that. I mean how would his base look similar to Frieza's second form? As I said, I know we don't know much about their race but wouldn't it make sense for their original form to look more like...their original form?
well, my theory is that the size and horns are sexual traits. much like a bull is much larger than a calf, and has horns, an adult of their race is bigger than a child, and has horns. while we don't know exactly how much older than frieza king cold is, we do know that he is significantly older.

as for second form resembling an adult, i think the different forms were originally meant as camouflage. Their race wasn't always the strongest thing walking. originally they would have had predators. so, how did they evolve to protect themselves? they transformed into different forms.

1st form would be meant to hide in, because it's so much smaller than the others.

2nd form would be meant for children to look like adults, fooling predators that only hunted the children.

3rd form would resemble the predator of a predator, to scare them off.

once the race bred themselves into a high power state, the children would have had difficulty controlling that power, and the camouflage forms adapted into suppression forms, so the children would only use an amount of power they could actually control.

while none of this is related to what is actually shown in the manga, it does make sense, and it doesn't contradict anything.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Kblo247
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In the manga, Frieza easily

In the anime and Kai, Cold wrecks him. Gohan, Vegeta, Krillin, and Puccolo all basically co-sign th notion that Cold is stronger and they would know his power better than anyone. Frieza even states that only his dad could cause him pain
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Weskur
Nov 14 2011, 02:40 PM
I don't think it was ever stated how much older Cold was. And wasn't there a quote of Frieza saying the only ones that ever beat him bad were his parents? Still, if that was Cold's base and original form, that's just weird and Akira probably rushed that. I mean how would his base look similar to Frieza's second form? As I said, I know we don't know much about their race but wouldn't it make sense for their original form to look more like...their original form?
Chapter: 310 (DBZ 116), P2.2-3
Freeza: “I didn’t think you’d be this good…You’re the first person besides my parent(s) who’s got dust on me…This might be the first time in my life I’ve been so excited…”
Note: the word used here for parent (oya) could be either singular or plural.

That doesn't imply his parent(s) beat him, just that they at least did some damage like Goku did. Toriyama reuses designs out of ease/laziness, like how he pretty much reused Piccolo's design for Pikkon, so him modeling Cold after Freeza's second form doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

The second generation being stronger than the first is a theme in shonen, at least in DBZ. I'm not sure Freeza would be the exception here.

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P3.5
Freeza: “It’s an honor that my name should be known on this planet so far removed from the rest of the galaxy…However, unfortunately you don’t seem to know that I have the greatest power in the universe…”

"Freeza's father. He is a shadowy presence in the organization, and nobody knows of his existence apart from his family and his direct subordinates, not even the Ginyu Special-Squad. Though he's the head of the strongest family in the universe, he is somewhat inferior to Freeza." - D7 bio[/s]
Edited by Pyrus, Nov 14 2011, 07:05 PM.
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Victorious
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Organic Freeza at 100% power should be able to beat Cold without too much trouble...and Mecha Freeza is stronger than that, so

Freeza beats Cold...he's the "strongest in the universe" prior to the Super Saiyans.
Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list
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NavonWise
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Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 14 2011, 07:05 PM
That doesn't imply his parent(s) beat him, just that they at least did some damage like Goku did. Toriyama reuses designs out of ease/laziness, like how he pretty much reused Piccolo's design for Pikkon, so him modeling Cold after Freeza's second form doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

The second generation being stronger than the first is a theme in shonen, at least in DBZ. I'm not sure Freeza would be the exception here.
Even if Akira was lazy and reused Frieza's second form, still doesn't mean Cold was in his original form. Again from what we see Frieza in his original form, Cold in his original form should look something like Frieza's.
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